ETLB Squawk Forums — Archive

a glider pilot was taken into custody for 24 hours for flying in a "no-fly zone" that doesnt exist according to sectional charts.  so just passing this along to anyone ( like me ) who lives near one of these facilities....  its in the first section of the AOPA live broadcast...

http://www.aopa.org/aopalive/this-week/?cmp=ALTW:L1

Our govt and "authorities" are getting crazier every day!!!  

That's just nuts!  Everyone on this board really needs to watch that video.  There was even some discussion among law enforcement of shooting him down...and he didn't even break any laws.  

It's the locals.  I'm sure the feds only got involved when the locals got their shorts in a bunch.  Every Barney Fife is certain al Qaeda is trying to blow up the Piggly-Wiggly.  

Jesus! That was awfull.
I hope you guys don't end up throwing flares from your Maxes to avoid "shooting down missions"
Lets hope this event will make authorities more cautious before acting like that.

More cautions? I don't thinks so. They're out patting each other on the back for a job well done. And they made a deal to drop all charges if he promised not to sue?!? How generous. I don't think I could accept that agreement. When I got through with them, Barney Fife wouldn't hire one of those two bit tin plated red neck wannabe boy scouts.  >

i know a guy who tows from that field and knows the gentleman well.  he siad they have lawyers who are anxious to take his case...and he also subscribes to some AOPA assistance program.  i am certain this is far from over.  before all is said and done barney fife may not even get to carry that one bullit in his shirt pocket...

Just as long as it is not my Piggly-Wiggly thats under attack!

I am old enough to tell you ex communist - "behind iron curtain" flying stories.  Not that much different..... Where are you heading to ?  The real threat is if the Authorities starts to draw circle around strategic industries and create endless no fly zones where its really not necessary.
Here some of the local governing political forces trying to shot down 70 years old airfields because in the last 20 years a new housing estate is built around and some high politician complaining of towing and glider noises at weekend. They limited the flights to 5 tows on weekend days (yes, per day, not per glider). But the real reason is that the sheer amount of acres of flat space is an easy construction site for an amusement park. Which is money to pockets.
Locak kings. They already have the crown, but no head.

Turns out there is a notam with blanket flight restrictions over power plants, dams, refineries, etc. Aircraft are restricted from "loitering in the vicinity" which is open to interpretation.  Obviously, a glider in a thermal is circling.  FAA has told the SSA that gliders should avoid remaining over one of these sites and when possible notify the site's security personnel prior to operations.

I have just written the FAA and asked them to add all Piggly-Wigglys to that blanket flight restriction. I'll keep everybody posted as to any responses I receive.

As I see it.........if you are in a glider, you need to do what you need to do in order to get your altitude and if it happens to be over such places.......oh well!!!!

Yeah, gliders have a special problem.  At Saratoga (5B2) we share the airport with not only power planes but the Karner Blue butterfly (endangered species).  We're told not to land in the grass except in an emergency so now what would be a routine grass landing beside the concrete runway when another glider is being staged or a power plane takes the runway for takeoff, it's an emergency that has to be explained to the DEC, FBO, FAA, etc.

actually here is the NOTAM.....the wording EXTENT PRACTABLE and STRONGLY ADVISED...you decide.

Blanket notams
9/5151 (#12): Sporting Events

4/4386 SPECIAL NOTICE... NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM INTERCEPT PROCEDURES. AVIATORS SHALL REVIEW THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION MANUAL (AIM) FOR INTERCEPTION PROCEDURES, CHAPTER 5, SECTION 6, PARAGRAPH 5-6-2. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0. IF AN AIRCRAFT IS INTERCEPTED BY U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT AND FLARES ARE DISPENSED, THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES ARE TO BE FOLLOWED: FOLLOW THE INTERCEPT'S VISUAL SIGNALS, CONTACT AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL IMMEDIATELY ON THE LOCAL FREQUENCY OR ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF GUARD 243.0, AND COMPLY WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY THE INTERCEPTING AIRCRAFT INCLUDING VISUAL SIGNALS IF UNABLE RADIO CONTACT. BE ADVISED THAT NONCOMPLIANCE MAY RESULT IN THE USE OF FORCE. WIE UNTIL UFN

4/0811 ...SPECIAL NOTICE... THIS IS A RESTATEMENT OF A PREVIOUSLY ISSUED ADVISORY NOTICE. IN THE INTEREST OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND TO THE EXTENT PRACTICABLE, PILOTS ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE, OR IN PROXIMITY TO SUCH SITES AS POWER PLANTS (NUCLEAR, HYDRO-ELECTRIC, OR COAL), DAMS, REFINERIES, INDUSTRIAL COMPLEXES, MILITARY FACILITIES AND OTHER SIMILAR FACILITIES. PILOTS SHOULD NOT CIRCLE AS TO LOITER IN THE VICINITY OVER THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES. WIE UNTIL UFN


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Guess that "to the extent practicable" is open to interpretation. Guess common sense should be applied by both the pilot and the local lawmen. I was under the impression that airspace was under the control of the FAA, military authorities or Homeland Security. Does Barney fall under any of those categories ?? In any event one should not fly over a Nuclear Power Plant because it might make you glow in the dark and your kids might be born with extra features. lol  With the steam generated by those plants it could be a really hot thermal.

Quoted from Garyk In any event one should not fly over a Nuclear Power Plant because it might make you glow in the dark and your kids might be born with extra features. lol  

dang, i can throw a stone from my front porch and hit one.....no real problems to speak of...'cept my son was born with a 3rd leg.  but he is one hell of a soccer player!!

Quoted from Bob Daly Yeah, gliders have a special problem.  At Saratoga (5B2) we share the airport with not only power planes but the Karner Blue butterfly (endangered species).  We're told not to land in the grass except in an emergency so now what would be a routine grass landing beside the concrete runway when another glider is being staged or a power plane takes the runway for takeoff, it's an emergency that has to be explained to the DEC, FBO, FAA, etc.

Those damn butterflies...... I haven't seen 1 yet! There's also a grass strip to the right of 32 we use unabated. We just have to stay within the cones.

I am so sick and tired of the govt making things harder and more difficult for everyone.

I guess in a way we can blame ourselves because we do "own" the government. But for some unknown reason we keep re-electing the same morons year after year. I like the politicians who "represent" me but a couple terms is enough. Beyond that they take ownership away from us. Having to deal with politicians (from local to the National level) during my working career I know that most folks don't push back when they disagree with an issue. If you don't like what they do "for you" let them know. They react to the potential loss of your vote or negative publicity. (Present "glorious" leader excepted) Bureaucrats will laugh if you contact them but if you do it through your "elected" reps that will get their attention. Push back and push back harder.

Gary,

I agree totally!

Neil

Ditto

+1

I speak from experience. It is not only what you say but how you say it when you are being interviewed(not questioned, interviewed). Say nothing ask for a lawyer! "But you are not being charged, we only want to ask you a few questions" Say nothing! "So you are interfering with a police investigation"? Again try not to be intimidated. Say nothing!

But "I have nothing to hide, I have done nothing. I will help however I can." This is NOT the appropriate thought process.

Listen to TreeTopsSam and myself.

Sorry for the rant...hit a personal nerve!

Neil

Tom,

An assault weapon is defined as any weapon that the warped mind of a "left-left-left" liberal wishes to ban. That could be anything from a Zip Gun to an AK 47. No offense to my "progressive" acquaintances intended. Gee, if all of those Hollywood types, who seem to be way liberal, manage to ban guns wonder what they will use to make their movies ?? Guess all of us Roy Rodgers fans are a threat to society now. Darn !!

A good combat veteran will tell you that Stripper Clips are just as effective as a 30 rd clip, and full-auto is a waste of ammo...

Buying lots o guns like a lot of folks are now doing is not too bright either. You can only carry 2 at a time, and besides you are having to register those guns, unless you buy them at a show..

Having 2 each Unsealed cans of 500 rds for each weapon is much better....

The only good reason to buy guns now is to have something that you can turn in later...

Final Point: The only reason that America hasn't been attacked from outside on our shores (other than Pearl).... is not due to our military....
                It's due to the number of armed citizens within this country that would outnumber any military force sent...

Just a point of interest that our elected representatives (read idiots) evidently don't know or don't want to acknowledge is that the "AR" in the AR-15 designation does NOT stand for ASSAULT RIFLE, it stands for ARMALITE RIFLE which is the company that developed the AR-15 which became the M-16.  Also I agree with Puff's statement about full auto being a waste of good ammo.  I remember reading somewhere in an analysis comparison of combat between WWII and Viet Nam that stated that approximately 1200 rounds were expended for every enemy casualty during WWII while nearly 100,00 rounds were expended in Viet Nam per foreign casualty because of the automatic fire.  During WWII the policy using the Springfield "03 and then the M-1 (the best combat rifle EVER) was to pick a target and hit it while using the minimum amount of ammunition while in Nam with the new M-16 the policy defaulted to full auto and spray the hell out of the bushes on the supposition that somebody out there would be hit/killed.  I speak from 27 months (two tours) experience in Nam. Trying to convince my troops to exercise good fire control was darned near impossible because of adjacent units burning up ammo like there was no tomorrow!  There were times when full auto was necessary when we were ambushed out on patrol or the Cong/North Vietnam troops were in the wire.  Hell yes, full auto was called for but not all the time.  I'm sure there are a few fellow Buzzards out there that can relate to what I've said. Enough war stories for now - just glad we made it back to CONUS.

Semper Fi!
Claude