ETLB Squawk Forums — Archive

Approx. 4 mo. ago I took off on my usual morning flight with a clear sky and cool air. Winds were light out of the north at takeoff as I climbed to around 900 ft. And leveled off, checked my temp gauges and settled in for a nice flight approx. 2 mi. From the airport. I realized the winds were increasing very quickly so I decided to turn back and was over some very brushy ranch land when my engine dropped to idle. I instantly started looking for a decent landing area while advancing the throttle which did nothing so I noticed a fairly clear spot to my right which was surrounded by very hazardous small hills. Now I am flying downwind at a rapid decent to land in the clearing. I made a good touchdown at a fast roll off then my landing gear went into a small crevice which caused my gear to fail and I found my butt upside down. After cutting my shoulder harness with my knife I then wondered how to get out of the aircraft. Thankfully I previously cut the windscreen sides off to free my arms in flight and only weighing 140 lbs I was able to squeeze out...wow.
I was not injured so I looked over the damage which was substantial as the cockpit forward was destroyed and on wing panel had a broken spar. I got on my phone and called a friend to come find me. I trailered my max back home and retired it as it was beyond my limited building skills. Since then and now I found a nice airbike and am now back in the air. As I know that I should not have been over hostile land, I was pleased in my skills with what I had to work with.
Have you guys thought about if you were in that same situation would you be able to escape your aircraft. This concerns me as some max,s do not have a turtle deck or those that do like mine have a full or partial windscreen. If you were upside down could you break the screen and if you could are you small enough to escape. This type of senario could happen on less hostile land if the conditions were right. Something to think about.

Monte

Glad you weren't hurt.  

Did you ever diagnose why the engine went to idle,  and wouldn't rev up?

My initial thought was a broken or slipped throttle cable but it was fine then ipulled the float bowl and it had fuel. After disassembly and close inspection of the cylinder and piston I noticed the knurling on the piston sides were gone and the cylinder showed wear but no transfer of metal. I decided to mark this incident down to a seizure.

Monte

got a picture of the damaged bird?

I figure that if I ever ended upside down, I'd just go into Hulk Mode and smash my way out. As long as my neck's not broke, I'm good.

Puff I thought of that too but I didn't have enough space in the tight cockpit to do any physical effort as you described. I could barely get to my pocket knife. I have picts but have not been able to post to this site, it says my photos are the wrong format but they are jpeg...what gives?

monte

here is a pict of my max after I made the great escape.

monte

I am sure glad you were not hurt. Would a chute have helped?

I had a brs chute on my max several years ago but removed it after realizing that at the altitude I normally fly at would not allow a full deployment so to save weight I removed it. In this situation I would not have deployed it due to the fact I still had control of the aircraft and had a decent emergency landing area compared to the surrounding area. Terrain some times looks great at 1000ft but quickly changes as you get closer. The landing was great but the small crater my gear struck did me in.

Monte

Quoted from texasbuzzard Puff I thought of that too but I didn't have enough space in the tight cockpit to do any physical effort as you described. I could barely get to my pocket knife. I have picts but have not been able to post to this site, it says my photos are the wrong format but they are jpeg...what gives?

monte

Speaking from experience gained back when I weighed 140 lbs. , it is very surprising how little one can do to extricate oneself from a small cockpit without any tools. I think you have raised a valid question.

There should be no such issue of escape from an Airbike, but I almost always were a helmet when I fly because the upper fuselage tube is not all that far above my head. (I am only 5'6" tall) Although I like the comfort of flying with only a cap and goggles on my head, I'm not positive that my seat belt and shoulder harness would hold me exactly in place in case of an exciting arrival, and I have had a few of those since 1966.

It's good to be thinking of what to do should the Huns find you instead of Ace.

Monte.....Sorry to hear of your incident with the MiniMAX, but glad you're OK. Was it right after it happened that you got the Airbike? Maybe I missed earlier posts, but wondered what had happened with the MiniMAX, your avatar changed, and I kinda wondered what happened.

Lynn

Monte,
Glad you were unhurt, that is the main thing.
Sorry to hear about and see your miniMAX in that shape.
Best of luck to you with your  AirBike
Larry
P.S.What became of the wreckage?

Gidday Monte,

Ok thanks for sharing your story and Im glad you were unhurt....as Ned Kelly said .."such is life"

Good to see your back "ON THE BIKE"...or was  it that horse..

Im sure some one could rebuild the aircraft..?...as Larry said wheres the wreckage...its alot of work but Im sure its repairable.   ie new fuse...?

Best wishes

Arthur

First I want to thank you guys for the " glad you are ok " my wife said that too but then added some other words that wasn't so nice. I received many " you crashed your max " comments and a responded with it was not a crash it was a forced landing with a glitch... I guess Sully went through the same drill.
A week after the accident a listing popped up on BS of an airbike approx 150 mi from me so I went and inspecting it then picked it up the next weekend. It was in very good condition but I still pulled the engine to re-seal and do a complete inspection. The wreckage is stored at the north end of my hanger I use it to rob parts. I'm sure it could be rebuilt but not by me. I would still be worried that the same situation could happen again. I am very comfortable in my airbike and feel I could escape the cockpit easier if i decided to land on my wing....is that a wheels up landing. TTT the " follow up " does have 3 letters in part of it and is kinda funny but will PM it when I get it together.

Monte

here is a close up of the damage.

monte

What a sad end for your plane. But you did well to get her down & walk away - even better to get out from that wreckage.

A very good point you make on being able to escape from an enclosed canopy if inverted. I will see if i can find one of those escape hammers. ISTR they sell them with a blade to cut seatbelts & a pointy end for breaking perspex.

Good call.  Hope you've used up all your bad luck now, & enjoy the Airbike.

Quoted from texasbuzzard TTT the " follow up " does have 3 letters in part of it and is kinda funny but will PM it when I get it together.

Monte

I, and probably others, would be interested in hearing "the rest of the story" unless you think it would be best if not made public. Certainly your call.

What's to become of the 277? I might be embarking on another project......

Lynn

Lynn I plan to keep the 277 for a while to play with. but if I decide to get rid of it I will contact you.

monte

Hi Monte, just read about your mishap and very sorry to see your plane upside down. However you achieved the priority which  is to walk away unharmed from a  forced landing. Its was not a crash, it was just an awkward way to park your Max.
Remember the old saying "A good landing is when you can walk away from the plane and excellent landing is when you can use the plane again"
I have seen several  pictures and comments of Minimaxes that ended up upside down and none of them mention fatal results, of course we don't know if any of them ended up with a collar or a spine problem. In the UK modifications ask for a double turtle deck right behind your neck to make some sort of reliable roll bar, but in the UK also they place the engine at the lower position creating a higher risk for the pilot in an upside down position. See line in the picture
The cabin exit is the second issue, and some other questions arise, Is the fuel tank in front?, is it leaking? not yet? how hot is the muffler? etc. So the pilot needs to exit the plane before is too late. A side exit seems to be the best alternative because a front exit is too close to the ground. Tough job to do. By the way,How long did it take you to leave the plane?
Important subject we should be prepared just in case. Luckily our planes land at a very slow speed

Ricardo at first I checked all of my appendages and found my feet were trapped under the collapsed firewall but was able to free them by slipping out of my shoes. As I was hanging inverted I spent the most time thinking on how to get my shoulder harness free. Overall I spent approx. 15 min. Before I could free myself. Luckily my fuel tank did not burst. This was a downwind landing which carried substantial speed at touchdown and  combined with rough terrain was the cause of the flip. I would recommend first to always fly with a 5 point harness as getting free from my 2 point was my biggest challange then at least have a plan to escape the cockpit. Every pilot should sit in their max and think what they would do in a similar situation. I always carry a sharp knife and a charged phone when I fly and am thinking about a pocket ELT. These cockpits are small and don't give you much room to muscle out especially if you are a larger pilot hanging inverted.

Monte

What did you end up doing to the wreckage?

Its at the end of my hanger but exposed to the weather. didn't have any room in the hanger.

monte

"is that a wheels up landing."

Yes, that's a wheels up landing. This is a highly technical issue, and the "Wheels Up" landing should not never be confused with a "Gear Up" landing. A "gear up" landing can be accomplished only in a retractable gear airplane. A "Wheels Up" landing can be accomplished in both fixed gear and retractable gear airplanes, and even in amphibious float planes.

Pilots seem to be on their own to perfect the art of the "wheels up" landing since I have never heard of any flight school that teaches this technique.    

You seem to have done a fantastic job with your "wheels up" and I hope you have no farther use for that maneuver.  

Quoted from Ricardo Hi Monte, just read about your mishap and very sorry to see your plane upside down. However you achieved the priority which  is to walk away unharmed from a  forced landing. Its was not a crash, it was just an awkward way to park your Max.
Remember the old saying "A good landing is when you can walk away from the plane and excellent landing is when you can use the plane again"
I have seen several  pictures and comments of Minimaxes that ended up upside down and none of them mention fatal results, of course we don't know if any of them ended up with a collar or a spine problem. In the UK modifications ask for a double turtle deck right behind your neck to make some sort of reliable roll bar, but in the UK also they place the engine at the lower position creating a higher risk for the pilot in an upside down position. See line in the picture
The cabin exit is the second issue, and some other questions arise, Is the fuel tank in front?, is it leaking? not yet? how hot is the muffler? etc. So the pilot needs to exit the plane before is too late. A side exit seems to be the best alternative because a front exit is too close to the ground. Tough job to do. By the way,How long did it take you to leave the plane?
Important subject we should be prepared just in case. Luckily our planes land at a very slow speed

Ricardo after I realized that I was very limited in movement and started thinking how to escape till I finally did escape it probably took about 5 min. The hardest part was cutting my shoulder harness. Luckily the fuel tank which was in front of me did not leak but discovered later the fuel line did split and was dripping fuel. If I didn't bring my knife I probably would still be there. The distance between the canopy and ground was approx. 1 ft.... glad I am a small old man.

Monte

Quoted from texasbuzzard

glad I am a small old man.

Monte

....and still able to get older     There, I finished the sentence for you!

Lynn

Thanks Lynn..i forgot what I was doing.

monte

Hi Ace, I just got back on the Board after too long of a hiatus. Sorry to learn of the unfortunate end to your off-airport landing. I agree, it was a good landing and it was the roll out that screwed you. I recently had a similar situation; the landing was good (off runway) but hitting a berm of dirt broke the left landing gear leg weld from its fuselage longeron. That gear leg moved aft about an inch. Since I was near an airport and pulled it there to disassemble it for transport back home, the FAA got involved. That is now resolved and i am back flying.

Several years ago I too ended up hanging from my seat belt and shoulder harness. A weld at the joint of the gear leg and axle broke during landing. I was inverted instantly but the AirBike cockpit structure remained intact. It only took me about 10 seconds to unbuckle and crawl out. I have always wondered about being trapped in an inverted Minimax, you experience proves that it can happen. Good thing you are only a skinny 140 pounds, us 250 pounders might not have been able to do what you did. A roll bar of some type might save your life.

Glad to learn the outcome was satisfactory (albeit with the loss of your Max) and nice to learn that you are in an AirBike. These are good machines for Hun Hunting and defense of the Eastern Front. Have fun with your new plane.

Paul Fiebich

Hi Paul, the airbike is really nice especially with the tundra tires as they make landing on my grass runway very smooth. I just disassembled the engine and decarboned the Pistons and re-sealed the crank then checked all the components. The engine was in very good condition but had been run very rich so I re-jetted the carbs to rotax specs and now the egt's are around 1100 at cruise and the plugs color is a light brown. I now have 10 hrs on my bike and really love the view. It's like riding my motorcycle in the air

Monte

Hate to see that Monte, glad your OK. I still have my original Team sales brochure with that plane in it that I got in 1999. How many hours did you have on it?

Hi Bill, I had over 100 hrs on my max but never really logged the time. From the information I gathered my max was originally a 1100 that was brought back to Wayne Ison's shop and was converted to the first 1030f. It was narrower than the current ones and had a shorter tail moment so it would pass part 103 rules. Sad to see her go the way it did, but thankful I'm ok.

Monte

The idea of being trapped under an upside down plane also played a factor in deciding not to fly the Eindeckker any more.  The cabane struts in front of the cockpit provide some protection but could easily get sunk in soft ground.  A 70 year old fat man would have a hard time getting out.