ETLB Squawk Forums — Archive

So... how are you cats planning to comply with ADS-B?

I don’t fly in controlled airspace.

Monte

I don't either Monte, but when I rarely do, I make a phone call ahead of time and get permission. Tower gives me a light signal when I get in the area.

Paul Fiebich

I fly close to but not in mode C airspace. I built a stratux adsb http://stratux.me/ I can see them but they can't see me. It acts like a transponder that only receives signals plus it can send you weather information if you fly high enough. I built it for $100, some people are charging nearly a thousand bucks for the same thing.

In the UK we have a thing called Pilotaware. Here's a link to their website

http://www.pilotaware.com/

They seem to do a couple of different units. The basic unit is available here

http://pilotawarehardware.com/product/pilotaware-complete/

for £139.99 + VAT, (which is 20%), so the full retail price is £167.99 and to this you'd have to add shipping costs. So in dollars probably around $200 - $230 in all.

The deluxe unit they do costs £256 for the full turnkey system including Rosetta software and the first year's licence. I think this total in dollars is around $300 - $320, depending on the exchange rate, but I expect shipping and import costs may bump that up a bit. The Rosetta licence for second and subsequent years currently costs £12 + VAT, which works out at £14.40 per year, or around $17 - $18.

Sooo...
Unless I spend my spondulix on a X-ponder and ADS-B Out, I have to stay...
...out Class B and C airspace (Class A is not really a concern…)
...30 miles away from Class B airports
...below 10,000 ft MSL (unless I am flying over a mountain...)
...below 3,000 in the Gulf of Mexico out to 12 nm from shore

Seems to me that a MiniMax or Hi-Max is exactly the kind of plane you build when you want to avoid all that mess anyway.

Garmin G3X Touch with remote mounted ES transponder, remote VHF/COMM and WAAS GPS. I may throw in a 2-axis autopilot for fun!!

Quoted from 509 I fly close to but not in mode C airspace. I built a stratux adsb http://stratux.me/ I can see them but they can't see me. It acts like a transponder that only receives signals plus it can send you weather information if you fly high enough. I built it for $100, some people are charging nearly a thousand bucks for the same thing.

This is completely effin cool!!!!  So very sold.

If you got an Android tablet/phone you can get ADS-B in for about $20, just need an off the shelf USB SDR ( software defined radio )

https://ulbuilder.wordpress.com/2017/04/27/ads-b-in-for-20/

We are likely to have mandatory ads-b imposed on us within eighteen months. Not sure if It can be justified. Lots of vintage machines are likely to go to the bonfire as a result.

Quoted from ulbuilder If you got an Android tablet/phone you can get ADS-B in for about $20, just need an off the shelf USB SDR ( software defined radio )

https://ulbuilder.wordpress.com/2017/04/27/ads-b-in-for-20/

ULB, and Jeff, thanks for sharing the information on inexpensive ADS-B equipment.

Here is a link to the details. Looks like there will still be an exemption for non electric, if I read it correctly.
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t.....91_1225&rgn=div8

If you do not need to go into C airspace inside the mode C ring around B airspace or above 10,000 feet why would you pit a transponder on a minimax. If they ever do get user fees adsb is how they will know when to send you a bill

Quoted from cdlwingnut If you do not need to go into C airspace inside the mode C ring around B airspace or above 10,000 feet why would you pit a transponder on a minimax. If they ever do get user fees adsb is how they will know when to send you a bill

What are you a conspiracy guy cdl the gov is here to lower prices and bring on equality!

Quoted from Akwrencher Here is a link to the details. Looks like there will still be an exemption for non electric, if I read it correctly.
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/t.....91_1225&rgn=div8

Correct.  The exemption that currently allows aircraft without an electrical system to operate without a transponder also allows you to operate without ADS-B.

If we are flying under 103 are we an aircraft or a recreational vehicle?

Quoted from aeronut If we are flying under 103 are we an aircraft or a recreational vehicle?

None of the rules that apply to "real airplanes" apply to Part 103 ultralights.  No ADS-B requirement for ULs.

Kind of related:
I contacted Uavionix about a year ago asking if we could use their portable or UAS ADS-B transmitters like a ping on an ultralight so we would be seen on all the ADS-B receiver equipped aircraft.  Apparently the regs. only allow registered UAV’s / UAS’s and certified aircraft to transmit. I love having an ADS-B receiver in my 172 to see traffic, even when I’m using flight following. It’s helped me avoid the high wing vs. low wing situation twice already in my short flying experience. Both times entering the pattern at our busy untowered airport around the lunch rush. As ultralights don’t have transponders, I’ll happily purchase a UAS ADS-B transmitter if it’s ever allowed to keep from getting ran over.

Quoted from radfordc

None of the rules that apply to "real airplanes" apply to Part 103 ultralights.  No ADS-B requirement for ULs.

All the airspace rules apply (other than what is spelled out specifically in Part 103).  UL's shouldn't be in the ADS-B required airspace (as a rule) unless prior permission obtained from the controlling agency.  Class E surface might be an exception, though you still need permission to enter.

Quoted from LSaupe

All the airspace rules apply (other than what is spelled out specifically in Part 103).

I think you are saying it backwards....the only rules that apply to ULs are the ones stated in Part 103.  If there are other airspace rules in other parts of the CFR they don't apply to ULs; or at least UL operators aren't required to know them...

§ 103.7
(b) Notwithstanding any other section pertaining to airman certification, operators of ultralight vehicles are not required to meet any aeronautical knowledge, age, or experience requirements

These rule apply
§ 103.17 Operations in certain airspace.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.

§ 103.19 Operations in prohibited or restricted areas.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle in prohibited or restricted areas unless that person has permission from the using or controlling agency, as appropriate.
§ 103.20 Flight restrictions in the proximity of certain areas designated by notice to airmen.
No person may operate an ultralight vehicle in areas designated in a Notice to Airmen under § 91.137, § 91.138, § 91.141, § 91.143 or § 91.145 of this chapter, unless authorized by:

(a) Air Traffic Control (ATC); or

(b) A Flight Standards Certificate of Waiver or Authorization issued for the demonstration or event.


Probably the rule that we are interested in is the one that requires aircraft flying within 30 miles of a major airport to have a transponder (and soon ADS-B).  This doesn't apply to ULs because it's not stated in Part 103.

Interesting point.  I am basing my previous reply from my experience going through the USUA Ultralight Pilot training program (which goes back to circa 1999).  At that time the course material provided I thought was excellent.  I found the course work to be quite thorough and actually on par or better than when I  continued on for Sport Pilot (just needed to take a written and a check-ride back then), and also when I continued for Private Pilot.  

The USUA training covered considerably much more of the FARs than just the Part 103 declarations (pretty much on par with that for Sport Pilot, hence, I believe why the FAA allowed for just a written being needed for those with USUA or ASC Pilot Training).

More info always a positive thing, especially in an environment like flying.

I will do some more digging, but thanks for pointing that out.