ETLB Squawk Forums — Archive

Hi
Haven't had a plane for a couple of years and I had insurance with USUA First Flight on that one.  A quick look at their site makes me feel as if they have tightened up a bit.  Where are you folks that are carrying insurance on true and not so true u/l aircraft getting the coverage?  Thanks, I'm two thirds done with a Max but just got an N-3 Pup that might see flight first and I will want liability coverage.  All info and leads appreciated.
Kim Brown
New Hampshire

I still use First Flight.  Have used them for both ultralight and one light sport.

I think you are saying that your plane will fly as a Part 103 UL but you're not sure that it's legal in all respects?

I'm pretty sure that First Flight is your only option.  

When I last used First Flight, you only had to submit the a/c weight and they then gave a quote, now they want pretty normal stuff, copy of license, copies of relevant pages of log book, which in my case won't show anything as light as an N-3 Pup, so I don't know what happens then.
Kim Brown

I am supposed to be picking up the Pup this weekend to begin the process of resurrecting it from fairly long storage so I guess I am obliged to study the First Flight website for answers to questions I may have, I may in fact be bumping into the age old quandary of needing some u/l time when it isn't that easy to get u/l instruction anymore, because I think First Flight said something about five hours in comparable a/c which I don't have.  What I may have to resort to is enough time in a J-3 Cub to feel comfortable, and then go fly the Pup for five hours, and then apply for insurance.  
Kim Brown

A comparable aircraft would be the Aeronca Champ, I would believe.

As for insurance, I carry none. I reckon if I crash hard enough to have that problem I won't be alive to worry about it.

I've been told that you can put your aircraft in an LLC (incorporate it as limited liability) and then someone would only get the aircraft itself.

I had conversations with USUA and with First Flight today regarding the common insurance dilemma of not having actual u/l time but being asked by First Flight to prove five hours in type and class of a/c to qualify for the insurance.  With the help of the USUA rep, we settled on a compromise solution.  As the "u/l" in question is an N-3 Pup which is supposed to be some scale down sized J-3 Cub, if I were to demonstrate five hours in a J-3 Cub, they would call that sufficiently comparable.  As I am rusty and wanted some Cub time anyway, this seems to be a practical and fairly appropriate compromise solution.  So after I get the N-3 Pup to the hangar, and hopefully resurrected after a long period of storage, I'll get the five hours in a Cub and apply for insurance through First Flight, having first registered the N-3 Pup with USUA as that is required by First Flight.  So that is the plan for now.
Kim Brown

The use of the term "type and class" is confusing.  The FAA uses "category and class"....  for instance I'm licensed for category "airplane" and class "single engine land".  Obviously, many aircraft fall fit that description.

Perhaps what First Flight wants is time in "type"...meaning experience in an aircraft of the type you intend to fly or one very similar.  The problem comes if there isn't any other reasonably available aircraft that comes close to what you want....such as my Fokker Eindecker replica!  First Flight agreed that my 1000 plus hours of ultralight time and 400 hours of Sonex time qualified me for the Eindecker.

J-3 isnt that far off from the N3 (obviously the N3 is lighter, slower and more wind limited).  Friend of mine has both, and he prefers the handling on the N-3.  

KB,

I carried liability and premises(hanger) insurance on my Quad City Challenger CH-1.  It is registered E-LSA, and single-seat. I went thru Falcon Insurance company 830-257-1000. It was about $300 or so per year.
Originally they wanted me to get 5 hrs dual instruction in it.......until I pointed out to them that it was a single-seat.  So I just flew 5 hrs not covered.  
I only purchased the insurance because the airport required premises liability to rent a hanger.

Even though aircraft insurance companies are in the business of selling aircraft insurance, don't expect them to be real familiar with aircraft. They aren't always pilots; in fact, usually not.