ETLB Squawk Forums — Archive

Hi
Hopefully later this year I will be finishing up a flat top Max with Mosler 40 engine.  Throughout the build, I have been trying to incorporate features to allow faster disassembly/assembly, to go from trailer to flight, flight to trailer, in small enough time to make it practical.  I now need to start looking for a used trailer to complete the picture.  I'm guessing the Max will come in under 350 pounds, which to me seems like not a heavy task for a trailer.  I'm thinking single axle boat trailers should be likely candidates for the job.  As with anything else in life, knowledge and planning can make things better so I am seeking info on what capacity trailer is actually sufficient, is single axle adequate, and general engineering truths about distributing the weight most effectively.  I'm thinking nose first, don't unhook trailer from vehicle at the airport if possible, tailgate at rear to allow pulling plane out tail first, once fuse is out, two wing attachments.  In reverse, push or pull plane in front first, followed by a wing frame of some kind on each side.  I'm thinking covering of either heavy heavy tarp like truckers use over their loads, or lightweight sheet roofing.  There are two schools of thought on this general approach to "what to do with the plane to avoid hangar expense", one is make the trailer weather tight, the other is to not concern yourself with it being weather tight and put it in a garage structure of some kind when you get home.  At the moment I am leaning in the direction of the "make it weather tight" direction and merely park it when I get home.  This site and others as well are wonderful sources of real experiences so I welcome any and all comments and photos of how others have done with their trailers and things they have learned along the way.  I have seen much of what is on this site, but probably not all.  Thanks for the help.
Kim Brown
New Hampshire

You'll get tired of trailering pretty fast. IMHO. I did it, and it got old.
However. A boat trailer can be used. Forget about side structures to hold the wings, because that gives a cross-wind the ability to push the trailer sideways.
Also, side loading the wings can be a little dangerous for them. I punctured one of mine that way.
I loaded my wings carefully into the back of a long bed truck with mattress foam between and underneath, hooked up my Trailer, loaded the bird, tied it down and away I went.

Best thing would be an enclosed trailer if you absolutely have to trailer. 16' is about the absolute minimum, 18 better. I used a 24' that allowed a lot of room.
Better yet, ask the Airport Manager if you can simply TIE-Down the trailer on the field. If treated as a Tie-Down, you may get away with it, and cost may be down.
Provided it's secure from theft, etc.

Even better is hangar space.



Trailering is hard on instruments, BTW. I lost several over the years.

I'm building a trailer similar to another forum member for my max, because I just cant justify the cost of an actual hangar.  I am turning a large boat trailer into an enclosed trailer with lots of labor, don't recommend it.

I also am designing a robot / jig thing to help me rapidly assemble the wings onto the plane without much fuss, the goal is to go from arriving on site to taxiing for takeoff in less then 30 minutes. I plan on tying the plane down on a tie-down point (for 50 a month instead of 500 a month for a hangar)

How to be a "trailer weenie"...

http://dawnpatrol.org/trailers.htm

Try to make the springs as soft as possible. Most trailers are designed for much heavier weights than a Max, and so have far too stiff a spring rate.

If you can't soften the springs, consider making your instrument panel removable. The constant bumps will soon destroy internals, and they are expensive!

Bruce

Yeah, I am cutting a whole second axle out of my trailer and softening the main spring in it to help with that!

For reference, this is the trailer design I've came up with so far.

actually if you have a trailer with sides that extend out past the wheels, you don't need the bulge, and you'll have more room for the wings.

The reason I am doing it this way is mainly because I have access to a lot of those reinforcement beams that I am using for the side walls, but they are only long enough to make it that wide, if I made it wider, I'd have to buy a whole set of new ones, and then the roof would span more..  And my car mirrors wouldn't be able to see past the walls anymore and I'd need to strap on wider ones!

I agree though, wider would be nicer.  But with the things I have access to, for now, it is cheaper to do it this way.

Hey all,

New here... question on the width of the tail feathers on a VMax...

What is the span of the rear empennage?

An on line acquaintance recently purchased a V Max and got me to thinking about starting a build... I gotta get my medical sorted first. That done... flying will again be in the works. Anyway, I'm curious about how wide a trailer I would need without modification.

Thanks for your help... I've read nearly every post on the first 3 pages....

The stab is 7 1/5 ft. Remember that the stab is easily removed, so you could use a narrower trailer.

Thanks...

Itman, I have almost the exact setup for my trailer, only exception is from the flat front in your picture mine tapers down from the top and in from the sides to a small door.  It's nice being able to pull the plane in by holding the engine, and then get out the front door.  Plus it provides a nice little storage area for some tools, oil, a spare set of wheels (different tire sizes), cold weather gear ect.
I found a nice hanger 25 minutes from home for $65/month, so now I use the trailer as a mini workshop. (Another plus of an enclosed nice trailer)

Stilson, I wish I could find a hangar that cheap!  The ones around here are 400/mo!  I saw one that was 100/mo, but its over 2 hours from me, not worth it IMO.  I do like the idea of a front door, though, its very tempting..  I will try to add that.

I'm curious to know if anybody has bought a salvage trailer to convert to Mini Max storage?  Something like this, maybe:

https://www.salvagebid.com/155094237-2018-other-other/

I wish I could have just gotten something like that, but cost + weight for my poor subaru stops that option!

As I recall TEAM and Loehle used some derelict travel trailers (campers), and gutted them.

I've seen that done too, someone on here a few years ago took an old camper, gutted it and did the same thing.

Here in New England, I can look at Craigslist and find trailers that would be suitable for a starting point, for $300-$400, often times they are boat trailers, sometimes ex-camper trailers, sometimes homebuilt arrangements.  And often if you are willing to take the boat too, you can get it for almost nothing, or nothing.
Kim Brown
New Hampshire

I have met most of the Dawn Patrol referenced by RadfordC. All of them have kept their aircraft hangered unless travelling to a fly-in. Originally they would fly as long as it wasn't too far ( Marvin Story flew his Siemens Shuckert from Gardner KS (K34) to Gadsden Alabama) Several made multiple trips from Gardner to the Air Force Museum in Dayton, OH but all of them went to trailering for safety reasons. Typically it takes about an hour to rig the aircraft with two people. These are biplanes so there is more to do. Additionally the way they disassemble and reassemble  have been improved over time. Bottom line, keep it assembled and at the airport unless you are taking it cross country.
A number of the trailers have added cover structures made of steel electrical conduit covered with painted (latex) fabric.

A next to nothing all-wood trailer under construction. Civil Aviation Authority will inspect my bird with reg# RP-S2357 this Dec. 9, 2019. Maiden flight will follow soon..hopefully.

Hi Phil; it is good to hear from you and I would like to wish you well with the trailer and inspection. I hope to see some pictures of the eventful day.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Best wishes, Mike

Hi Mike!
Inspection gone well and felt so swell when a young female CAR inspector also a licensed pilot
mentioned that i'm  the first plans-built homebuilder in our country!
This something for me to be proud of. But anyway, I just hope to share memorable moments in the near future.
Regards,
Phil

YEEHAW the time is finally coming up soon. The feeling of flying your own creation is very good and you will remember it forever. Pick a calm day and enjoy the experience.